AIBP ASEAN B2B Growth
AIBP ASEAN B2B Growth
Sinarmas Land: Turning Urban Data into Action
In this episode, we are joined by Darwin Poso, Vice President of Enterprise Data Management at Sinarmas Land, one of Indonesia’s most prominent property developers. With a background spanning digital transformation and enterprise data strategy, Darwin shares how his team approaches innovation—from small, scalable data projects to organisation-wide knowledge initiatives. We explore the role of measurable innovation, cross-functional collaboration, and the practical application of AI in shaping urban environments
Sinarmas Land is Indonesia’s largest and most diversified property developer, with a history dating back to 1984. Listed on the Singapore Exchange, the company has a market capitalisation of approximately USD 1.06 billion as of March 2025
Sinarmas Land operates across residential, commercial, industrial, and integrated township developments. Its flagship project, BSD City, spans 60 square kilometres in Greater Jakarta—accounting for approximately 9% of Jakarta's total area—and serves as a testbed for smart city solutions integrating infrastructure, digital services, and sustainable planning.
From solving for traffic to structuring enterprise knowledge, we learn how synonymous land is applying Data and Systems Thinking to drive meaningful change.
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Innovation, for me personally, is sort of a pursuit of a solution that creates a value with a continuous improvement and spirit. Obviously, we try to measure innovation through customer engagement, benefit and improvement.
AIBP:One way this takes shape is through better use of data, like managing city traffic in real time using sensor input and analytics.
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Now, most interesting data project that is happening is, how can we actually, from the data standpoint of view, know that if certain traffic is begin begin to build up? So we need to know which intersection need to be, you know, released quickly, quicker. So obviously that is also a challenge. On, on, you know, in regards on how can we build a consolidated and Integrated Traffic Management around the town.
AIBP:To scale these efforts, data must be treated as an asset, turning information into something useful for everyone.
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:We call the enterprise knowledge base is one of the our highlight project for the data team, at least you know, to reasoning on how can we maximize the consolidated knowledge from everywhere, and then could put into consolidated and managed properly to provide best and optimum value to other people. Right?
AIBP:Innovation means solving real problems with intention and a goal to deliver measurable outcomes. Please enjoy this episode from AIBP ASEAN B2B Growth podcast.
AIBP Intro:The AIBP ASEAN B2B Growth podcast is a series of fireside chats with business leaders in Southeast Asia focused on growth in the region. Topics discussed include business strategy, sales and marketing, enterprise, technology and innovation.
Vanessa Kwan:Hello and welcome to the ASEAN B2B Growth podcast where we sit down with individuals responsible for driving growth within their organizations here in Southeast Asia. My name is Vanessa, and I'll be your host for today, we have a very special guest joining us, Pak Darwin Poso, who is the Vice President for Enterprise Data Management at Sinarmas Land. Sinarmas Land is one of Indonesia's largest and most diversified property developers, with a land bank of about 10,000 hackers its flagship project, BSD city is an area half the size of Paris, making it a massive urban planning scheme that combines housing, business and commercial properties. Without further ado, may I invite Pak Darwin, who would be able to give us a better introduction of the company? But before that, also Pak Darwin, can you maybe give us an introduction of yourself, an idea maybe about your background, and perhaps share some personal hobbies or something that we cannot find about you online?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Sure. Fantastic. Thank you. Hi. My name is Darwin. I'm the VP of Enterprise Data Management at Sinarmas Land. Currently, I lead initiatives to drive or harness data strategically around Sinarmas Land so that our company can benefit from inform and decision making. So in the current focus Sinarmas Land is looking on how we can maximize and leverage analytics to improve our customer engagement and satisfaction.
Vanessa Kwan:Understand, understand and for the benefit of our international audience, who is dialing in as well, can you maybe give us a overview of the Sinarmas as well as Sinarmas's history and business model?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Yeah, as you have mentioned briefly, Sinarmas Land is one of the largest and most prominent property developer in Indonesia. We have been around for around 50 years, managing diverse property and boasting around 10,000 hectares of land bank, focusing in developing. Working on for the township, residential area, commercial mall industry. So obviously, we have a very wide range of project and Sinarmas Land is committed to provide or create a sustainable, you know, urban development and innovation, which has been positioned itself as a leader in in a recently new and focused sector.
Vanessa Kwan:Understand, understand, and you know, you've mentioned that cinemas land is one of the largest developers, one of the largest real estate companies in the country and in this part of the world, we often talk about innovation, and it's also one of the bigger challenges and the bigger conversations in the boardroom nowadays. But maybe let's shift our focus a little bit more specifically into innovation. You know, Pak Darwin. What does innovation mean to you? And how does Sinarmas Land actually measure the successes or even the failures of some of the innovation efforts that is ongoing?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Yeah. So in for innovation, for me personally, is sort of a pursuit of a solution that create a value with a continuous improvement and spirit. Obviously, we try to measure innovation through customer engagement and benefit improvement. And then there's also touch touch base on we're talking about how innovation is deeply ingrained in Sinarmas Land's culture. One of, one of many approaches that we establish is we kick start, actually a big digital transformation that you know, looking on how we can create a solution to improve customer satisfaction. The other one, we also established a strategic partnership with technology leaders such as Microsoft to provide us, you know, the most updated tech and tech to create a better development. And then we also, you know, work closely together with Monash University to be a research based urban design. And lastly, we also launched initiative like a digital hub in BSD city that serve as an ecosystem, you know, to encourage on promote digital innovation within the ecosystem.
Vanessa Kwan:Understand and earlier, you mentioned one of the points being innovation being deeply ingrained into the culture at Sinarmas Land. Can you maybe share a little bit more around how innovation is being cultivated into your employees?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Yeah, so, you know, as I mentioned earlier, that I lead the initiative, so we internally, we have what we call a project marvel that, you know, basically, they have some few sort of team focus to improve. And I took upon in a topic of data and AI, so in that sense, in Data and AI, we sort of looking of what kind of improvement that we can make, and the way we drive the initiative is from the top and bottom, top meaning we we kind of map out what kind of improvement that we already want and and strategically need. And then, for bottom is, we kind of like, encourage, you know, employee within cross business unit to actually voice what kind of problem they're facing and how the project market can actually solve it, right? And then we we conduct what we call a workshop, and then, you know, technically, if we feel that the problem and then can be consolidated and and prioritized to see how the benefit and so on. In order to produce, to provide which priority we should conduct first to achieve best and maximum innovation value.
Vanessa Kwan:Understand and one of the other areas that we also try to get a pulse on is, you know, earlier, you mentioned also innovation goes both. One is top down, one is bottom up. But when it comes to like all the different projects for yourself, you look specifically more into the data and the AI space, yes. When it comes to like all these different projects and all like, they may or may not be innovation, innovation related. But how do you then go about to prioritize and allocate, allocate the resources for all these different projects. And then, you know, there's this other part of the equation, where sometimes you also have to balance the risk aspect of things together with innovation. So what are your thoughts on those two questions?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Yeah, that's this. This is actually a very interesting topic, because I think in term of problem, everyone have a problem, right? And as you know, we also have a very limited resource to solve every problem. We cannot, we cannot solve every problem, right? Then we need to think creatively. One of key area that we try to think through is try to, you know, map out what is the key strategic solution that can solve many problem first, right in terms of what they call it impact. So we kind of map out what is the biggest impact with lowest effort as much and then. But sometimes, if we go down that route, sometimes it does not necessarily solve the most painful one. That's why we we cover from the bottom to top, one to, you know, kind of canvassing. What do they actually need? Kind of voice out. And then by that, we consolidate everything. And then doing a do some workshop on what is the biggest possible impact, and, and, and the second approach is, once we kind of know what kind of drop list and then how to approach it, we then begin from a very beautiful, very beauty solution is, which means that we start small and then scale big. That is one of the things that I like the most about AI and then data approach, because obviously with project that with a large scale has a very hard, large race. But with AI, fortunately, sometimes we can see we can start small, then if it works, then we can, you know, miraculously scale it big, because it get a certain pattern that we can extend and scale.
Vanessa Kwan:You lead me very nicely into the next question I have, actually, you know, speaking about like data and AI and how you are actually prioritizing and scaling all of these projects that you have. But maybe we can take a step back also and Pak Darwin, perhaps you can share with us a little bit more into how Sinarmas Land is leveraging data first to, you know, drive certain initiatives, especially in like Smart City developments, for example, earlier you shared about BSDCD, so maybe you can share some of, like the data initiatives that you and your team are working on.
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Yeah, so in regards to the smart city development in, you know, in BSDCD, Obviously, data is all around us. And obviously there are lots of problem that we can touch upon to improve. So one of the problem is, how can we manage data around traffic so we instill or install a lot of IoT around the town. So one of them is smart, sorry, traffic. And then we also put an IoT on the sewer. So from that one, one of the, you know, most interesting data project that that is happening is, how can we actually, from the data standpoint of you know, that if certain traffic is begin begin to build up. So we need to know which intersection need to be, you know, released quickly, quicker. So obviously that is also a challenge on, on, you know, in regards on how can we build a consolidated and Integrated Traffic Management around the town?
Vanessa Kwan:Understand, and you know, this is something that we kind of look at from a more township or, like from a smart city, BSD city perspective. But I also understand that you yourself, you are exploring internal LLM, which will be used to enhance the customer experience for yourself and for the company. Can you maybe share a little bit more about this particular projects? Yeah, can you share more about this project?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Yeah, I think, I think topic around LLM is has been really popular right around, around this year. If you haven't lived in under the rock, you should know that chat GPT, Gemini Cloud can help so much in in everyday, you know, and then professional life, but in Sinarmas Land, we believe data and information is scattered around, it should be treated as an asset, which we do. And then we the next step is, how can we actually, you know, transform those data in a way that beneficial for all? That's why it is very important, you know, to to know which data domain that can be consolidated and governed, you know, in a way, to provide a benefit for everyone in Sinarmas Land.
Vanessa Kwan:Understand and and when it comes to, like, say, this kind of internal ms that you are developing in the team, or for the team. How? How are these projects actually being governed? Is there like a different data governance team that look at it? Or would it also be from someone from your side?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:To be honest, in the LLM approach, sometimes, so the from the solution point of view, we need kind of building some sort of holistic solution, right? And sometimes we also know, building a holistic and comprehensive solution require sometimes, because it speaks in foundational like that's why, on the governance part, we are still in the process of defining what type of domain that should be standardized, right. And the next and the next step, if we already know which domain of data that should be defined and governed. Then, we also need to kind of embrace all the data owner that actually own the data to, you know, to partake or to participate on how to improve, manage and maintain their own data. So in short, we lay out a short term goal and long term goal to achieve what we what we believe would be ideal - LLM, but we haven't reached that that yet, but we believe we kick start the short or quick win quite nicely, and the long term still in the long term, right? So, yeah.
Vanessa Kwan:Understand. So it's going back to earlier, what you state about starting small and then scaling bigger eventually. But when it comes to like this particular, for example, LLM project, or even earlier, you spoke about how you're actually leveraging all the different data points for BSDCD. How do you actually measure the success of all of these data initiatives, data efforts, and in your opinion, what kind of metrics are the most valuable for yourself, and then also in conversations with, for example, your senior management?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Yeah. So we, we are measuring our data initiative, AI initiative, upon, you know, several metrics, right, like in so we are focusing on on two, at least two main points on how we can actually improve operational excellence. And the second one is, how can we improve the most metric of all? How can we improve our customer satisfaction so that that two kind of metric actually anchor in anchor to be anchor. You know, on every time, whenever we initiate a project or so, we kind of reinforce that strategy around that one.
Vanessa Kwan:understand so two things that you mentioned, operational excellence, as well as customer satisfaction, and on the other side, right, I'm guessing also implementing All of these data applications wouldn't be an easy task for you or for your team. Can you maybe also share with our audience some of the challenges that you faced along the way? And you know, for a very traditional industry like in real estate, how do you overcome, like, all of the hurdles that you face? I'm guessing legacy systems would be one of the big things that you are experiencing also. So how have you kind of overcome those challenges, or if you are still in the midst of navigating it, how do you plan to go about those?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Yeah, so you know, although, yeah, real estate consider as a traditional sector. I believe data problems occurs in the same way that you know everywhere, because we are still, you know, facing problems like they are legacy system, and then we somehow need to ensure the data quality that you being used and how this improvement or innovation can be accepted within the organization. So obviously, in navigating those problem, we are focusing on, you know, first, how can we build a lasting, or more up to date, a modern infrastructure or data architecture in order to power us, you know, or max, or our support, our data initiatives, much in a better way, and then to provide a clear guidance or governance is also important, because sometimes they they are confusion of on which, on how we can improve data, and obviously we need a participation for everyone. That's why we need to create a very clear guideline on who is doing what right and on the and we shouldn't also forget about the change management in the company, which means that people who actually participating in the technology implementation should be also upscale and we also provide a company wide, collaborating together with the partner from like Microsoft to provide upskilling in regards to the technology side.
Vanessa Kwan:Understand, and you know, you've mentioned about, like, all of these projects and initiatives, and how you are actually trying to fight all of these challenges. But I'm quite curious also, right? If you were to look forward, meaning at the end of the year, what kind of achievements would you or your team need to achieve, such that you will say that it has been a good year? Are there, like, certain live projects that are going on now that you wanted to see certain results by the end of the year, or, like, even in the coming 2 to 3 years?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Yeah, so actually, they are two projects that we've been I think we've been focusing on, right? The first one is about the LLM, that the knowledge base. So we, what we call the not enterprise knowledge base, is one of the our highlight project for the data team, at least, you know, to visioning on how can we maximize the consolidated knowledge from everywhere, and then put put into consolidated and managed properly to provide best and optimum value to other people, right? The second one we are also looking on, how can we create more self-service analytics, but in a double way, so everyone can benefit, obviously, in improve and more standardized report, so they can actually produce report in a better and faster manner. I think that's to highlight a project of Team Leader.
Vanessa Kwan:Understand, and going back to one of the points earlier you mentioned, also, change management is one of the important parts and the important aspects of data transformation that you and your team are working on. How are you or how is Sinarmas Land also, you know, preparing your workforce and kind of driving your overall strategy to address the emerging trends and opportunities in the real estate industry. Are there, like certain areas or certain aspects where you see more more certain, more more demand, or, like, more niche in certain job functions, certain job roles. Are you hiring more AI people, for example?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:So yeah, in in regards to prepare the workforce for the upcoming, you know, AI and technology trends, Sinarmas Land has been deeply investing on how we can improve and get up to speed of new strength. So they are combination of two things, the first one internally, we also already created some sort of a learning and growth for that, for the employee. But it's more on managerial and non technical side, but it also complemented with with partner such as Microsoft to create an upscaling project. But in on the third on the third side, we also complement tech, tech training material from the third party as well. So in regards to hiring more AI professional, maybe that one, we haven't done it so aggressively because, for the sake of we believe in ourselves, oh, sorry. We believe in our team and our employee, and we are deeply invested. We should be deeply invested in our people, instead of hiring new all the time, I think that's the right way to go.
Vanessa Kwan:Understand, understand and for yourself. You know, in your opinion, across like the real estate industry, where do you see the largest growth and opportunities, and how do you see cinemas land actually capitalizing on these trends as well?
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Yeah, I believe for the you know, future, the largest good opportunity lies in, you know, developing a smart and sustainable urban environments that basically leverage technology to enhance the quality of life and Sinarmas Land has been deeply focused on investing in digital infrastructure, forming a very strategic partnership with tax fostering innovation to initiative these efforts aim to create ecosystem that basically support those technology advancement.
Vanessa Kwan:Understand, understand, and in your opinion, right for Indonesia or even across the ASEAN region, what areas or like, what kind of topics or what kind of trends excites you the most? So it need not be within the real estate space, it can be generally in those countries.
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:The area, I think, I believe in the Smart City topic in the forum, because this Smart Cities technology is already emerging and and keep rapidly advanced, because, at the end of the day, since we are Sinarmas Land in the business of property and then real estate we believe in, you know, increasing or improving quality of life of the people who live in it. So this, this CREATE A SUSTAINABLE you know, urban will be a very much focused for us,
Vanessa Kwan:Understand, understand, Pak Darwin, thank you very much for sharing your insights with us today. You know, we've heard a lot about how Sinarmas Land is transforming BSD city into a smart, digital and sustainable city, as well focusing on that energy transformation you mentioned earlier, as well mobility and also being in a healthy environment. We also hope that the audience did take away a lot from your sharing today, and we certainly look forward to more conversations with you. Thank you for joining us
Darwin, Sinar Mas Land:Likewise, thank you for the opportunity.
AIBP:We hope you've enjoyed the episode. For more information about business growth in the ASEAN region, please visit our website, www.iotbusiness-platform.com.